The High Bar of Finding an Agent or Publisher
I think this week might secretly be listed on agents’ and publishers’ calendars as National Rejection Week. *smile* Okay, not really. But judging from the online conversations I had with writing friends over the past couple of days, it certainly feels that way to many of us.
In other words, the rejections were flying in response to this person’s query, that person’s full request, this client referral, and that conference pitch request. Virtual chocolate was passed around and the general mood was grim.
The toughest rejections, believe it or not, were those where the agent or publisher loved the story—they just didn’t love it enough. Their feedback was the type we’d be happy to put on a front cover blurb:
“Beautifully descriptive writing…”
“I just fell in love…”
“Your world-building is so fantastic…”
But all that praise wasn’t enough.
When Love Isn’t Enough
We used to hear, “A story can’t just be good. It has to be great.”
Then we were told that an agent or editor had to “fall in love” with the story, characters, or voice.
Now?
Agents and editors won’t take on a story unless it’s at the Oh-my-God-I-love-it-It’s-awesome-I-can’t-live-without-it level of love.
I don’t blame them for that new high bar. The publishing industry is being squeezed. Publishers aren’t printing as many new books, especially from debut authors, and agents aren’t able to sell as many new books or authors.
Just “falling in love” with a project isn’t enough anymore. Agents and editors have to be champions of a story to push it through the publication channels. And signing on as a champion requires a level of dedication beyond mere love of a story.
We know from our own experiences with books that there’s a difference between stories we love and stories we love enough that we grab our friend’s shoulders and demand “You must read this book!” There is a difference there. And that difference is the obstacle we face when we want to find an agent or editor.
Love Is Enough for Readers
But guess what? That extremely high bar for finding agents and editors doesn’t apply for readers. As readers, we’re perfectly happy to find stories we simply enjoy. We don’t need to think we’re going to Oh-Wow-Love a story before we read it. And we certainly don’t need to expect that we’ll become a champion for a story before we buy a book.
So the good news is that our struggles with finding an agent or publisher don’t reflect on our ability to find and attract readers. Sure, we hope at least some of our readers love our story enough to spread the word, but that level of “love” isn’t required for every single sale.
Think about that for a minute:
The bar to acquire an agent and publisher
is higher than the bar to acquire readers.
Jumping Through (Secret) Hoops
Sometimes we’ll hear talk about how agents or publishers make writers jump through hoops to get their attention. Those hoops usually refer to submission guidelines or the like.
But this is a secret hoop that no one talks about. The hoop of needing to be better, luckier, something-er than readers or anyone else requires of us in order to land an agent or editor.
Unlike with the search for readers, just loving our premise and our writing isn’t enough. We have to find the agent and/or the editor who loves our work enough to champion it.
The chances of finding that needle in a haystack are like a horrible math problem: If x percentage like our book (enough to buy it) > y percentage who love our book (but not enough to champion it) > z percentage who want to marry our book and have babies with it, then solve for A. I don’t know about anyone else, but that gives me a headache. *sigh*
What Can We Do?
We’ve talked before about how reading and writing are subjective activities. Between the variety of genres/subgenres and the different publishing options, the saying “writing is subjective” applies more than ever.
A rejection should not be taken as the end-all-be-all. A rejection just means that agent or editor wasn’t “the one.” The rejection doesn’t reflect on the quality of our premise, story, characters, or writing ability.
So we’re faced with a choice. If we wish to pursue traditional publishing, the only way we’re going to find “the one” is to keep looking. We might have to go through a hundred rejections before we find the right match for our story. Or we might decide our goals are more in line with self-publishing and give up the search.
Not Having an Agent Is No Longer an Indication of Quality
The decision to give up used to imply that we were looking for a shortcut and weren’t willing to put in the work to improve our writing. However, with this new bar set higher than any other point in the industry, that distinction between “having an agent”=good quality and “not having an agent”=bad quality is gone.
Many high quality manuscripts—good enough to evoke fantastic feedback from agents and editors—will have a hard time finding a champion for the traditional publishing route. I don’t blame authors for deciding their time is better spent pursuing readers than attempting to find that elusive perfect match among agents and editors.
I still caution any author who chooses to go the self-publishing route to obtain professional editing to ensure their writing is really ready. But there’s nothing wrong with authors who decide they’d rather spend their time writing their next book than stretching to reach a subjective bar that’s higher than necessary for guaranteeing quality.
Some of us will decide the pursuit of readers is more important than the pursuit of an agent or editor. And as long as the author remains dedicated to high quality writing, I don’t think we can fault people for that choice. As for myself, I’m still hedging my bets. *smile*
Do you disagree with my theory about how it’s harder to find an agent or editor than it is to find readers? Do you think a great story is enough? Or do you think even great writing can have a hard time finding an agent? Have you encountered the problem of great writing not being good enough before? How have you dealt with that?
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You know, it’s funny. If the publishing industry is getting so hurt by self-published books, you’d think they’d stop driving more authors to try it.
It’s absolutely true that the agent/editor/publisher gateways are much higher bars than readers themselves have. I’m not even IN the publishing industry and I have a much higher bar since studying to become a writer than I did when I just read for fun.
The difficult part of self-publishing is the marketing and getting your books in the hands of readers who will advocate you to other readers.
And, unfortunately, there are a lot of authors who were rejected by those aforementioned high bars who needed to be. We’re not talking the “I love this, but I can’t agent it” level of writer, but the “wow, do you know how commas work?” level of writer.
(This is why I love my editor. He’s very patient with my comma abuse.)
As an informed reader, I still have a much higher success rate among traditionally published books, and I still haven’t found a great self-pubbed fiction book.
Hi Tami, “If the publishing industry is getting so hurt by self-published books, you’d think they’d stop driving more authors to try it.” Yes, I had a similar thought as I was working on this post. Agents and editors are always looking for good writers, but between this high bar and the fact that their “value-add” is less clear than it used to be, more writers are giving up than ever before. And I can’t blame them. I used to think every one of those who gave up were in that “Do you know how commas work?” category, but that’s not what I’m seeing anymore. I’ve witnessed the “it’s wonderful, I love it, but I can’t sell it” category, both because of full lists and because of higher-up sales decisions. I’ve been around long enough now that I know a lot of really talented authors, ones who have every accolade to speak of but an agent. Those writers know their writing is at the right level, so this isn’t a case of wanting to take shortcuts. And when we have conversations about what their next step should be, it’s hard to justify continuing to burn so much time on the agent search. These aren’t writers who can’t stand another rejection–it’s simply the time factor. Time that they wonder if they could better use by going direct to the readers who really matter. That said, I’ll absolutely agree with you that the percentages of crap-to-great are worse in self-published books. I’m… — Read More »
*nod* It’s a discussion I’m seeing a lot of variation on, and I’m SO happy to see it. Moving to a more educated writer/agent/publishing team can only be a good thing. Everyone knows that change is uponxt us and everyone’s scrambling to define just what that change is and how it will affect “us” (everyone).
The more great conversation we have on the topic, the better. *firm nod*
… until it starts to get antagonistic. Then it’s not discussion any more, regardless of which side is sniping at the other.
Oh, yes, let’s hope the conversation doesn’t devolve to that. 🙂
Hi Tami,
Agreed! 🙂
And as you pointed out with your “us” means everyone statement, these changes are bigger than just how they affect us as writers. They’ll have broad effects across the entire publishing spectrum, and no one quite knows how it will all play out. Just as we think we might see the writing on the way, another player introduces a new variable (i.e., Kodak entering the POD arena) that throws everything we think we know into the air again. 🙂 Thanks for the comment!
Oh! And Amazon Kindle offering serialized content, that’s a new one, too!
Oh yes, very true, Tami! Fortune-telling is a rough gig in the publishing industry right now. 😉
Check out those listed here http://awesomeindies.wordpress.com
I agree with Tami on that one–I question the truth of the idea that trade publishing is being hurt by self-publishing. I think they’re just moving the location of the slush pile. At the same time, I don’t know. Perhaps it’s because at the moment I’m revising to resubmit and not querying, but I feel buoyed by the high bar. Because I know whatever book I finally do sell is going to be top-notch and it will be the best I can do, and I’ll have an agent behind me who loves it like crazy. But in the pursuit of readers, I have to put in a plug for the intermediary–the bookseller, i.e., me. Because if when you solve for “A,” the answer is, “Mostly you’ll get people who will enjoy it but not talk about it,” the person you want in your corner is the person who has a lot of ability to talk about it. For instance, I have a lot of books in my proverbial “back pocket” for people who’ve burned out on the popular YA right now. They’re midlist authors, people who have only one or two copies in the store (though I make sure we keep more because I handsell them), but who’ve written fantastic books that *don’t* fall into the same wildly-successful formula that shoots them onto the NYT list but also makes them all-too similar to the other things out there. So when someone comes in and tells me they’ve read everything, I… — Read More »
Hi Jessica,
Yes, as I mentioned to Tami above, I do think some agents are moving their search for great writing to the self-published bestseller books. But I think that approach is fraught with trouble as well. a) That further discourages the great writers from thinking querying is the answer, and b) Successful self-published authors know exactly why they would–and wouldn’t–need an agent. If agents are okay with the author being in the driver’s seat, telling them you will do this for me but not touch that, the relationship can be great. But I know from many agency agreements, that many agents will want to have their fingers in everything the self-published author does, and they’re going to get laughed at.
I think you have a great attitude! 🙂 Yes, if we do succeed against that high bar, that’s really saying something, isn’t it?
Ooo, great point about booksellers! You’re absolutely right that they can help spread the word in ways that the average “I enjoyed it” reader can’t. Thanks so much for sharing that background information. 🙂 And thanks for the comment!
I think it can be harder to find an agent than to find readers, and I think good writing’s not always enough. That said, to me there’s value in having an agent because a) there’s someone else with a financial stake in the success of my project and b) I want to do the best possible work, and the feedback process – the ‘close but no cigar’ moments – have so far motivated me to do what I can to improve my writing. I’ve read some good stuff that make out of the Indie movement (Rob Cornell, Rabia Gale, JR Rain) and some crap that came through publishers (and I won’t name them b/c I’m not an idiot 😉 . And visa versa.
Thanks Jami! Hope you’re having fun with #gutgaa…
Hi Liv,
Yay! I worried this post would come across as being too down on agents (and that wasn’t my intention), so I’m thrilled to see supportive comments about the situation. 🙂
Great point about others having a financial stake in our success! With the cliche of putting “money where your mouth is,” writers will never pass a single milestone event of others loving their book that much as when an agent/editor invests in their work. Readers spend less time and less money to buy and read a book, so while their support is invaluable, it still doesn’t provide the same type of validation as acquiring an agent and editor.
That validation is a huge part of many writers’ goals. So no matter the obstacles, pursuing an agent and publisher will always be the path some writers want to take. And I don’t blame them for their choices either. 🙂 We all have different goals and that will lead to different choices and different paths.
I also like your attitude about wanting to improve your writing. You’re right that even when we reach that “great” level, we can still find things to improve. I’m a big believer in lifelong learning, so I certainly wouldn’t stop trying to improve my craft after finally getting an agent. Even if I decide to take the self-publishing path in the future for some of my books, my readers will still benefit from that improvement, so that time is never wasted. 🙂 Thanks for the comment!
“You know, it’s funny. If the publishing industry is getting so hurt by self-published books, you’d think they’d stop driving more authors to try it.”
It isn’t only authors looking to break in, either. More and more established authors are going this route. I am not really understanding why publishers aren’t working harder to make their authors feel valued, and therefore keeping talent they’ve already invested in.
Hi Angela,
Yes, Courtney Milan did a workshop at RWA National about her reasons for switching from HQN to self-published. She was a bestselling author there, and they tried to make the terms in the contract of her second book series worse than the terms for her first very successful series. Crazy. She walked away and I say kudos to her. Thanks for the comment! 🙂
jami,
I’ll be honest, when I read the first few sentences of this post I cringed. My work is out there right now, in the agent/editor dimension of space where you might get good news, but your better chances are that you’re going to get a polite thank you, but no thank you. So when you said you think this is rejection month, well, I felt tears sting my eyes.
But then, as I ALWAYS do with your blog, I read on, and realized that this is one of the most inspirational posts I’ve read online in ages.
I’m still waiting to hear back from the 10 agents I sent submissions to. I’m crossing fingers, toes, eyes in hopes that one of them gets that “OH MY GOD I LOVE THIS NOVEL SO MUCH I WANT TO MARRY IT AND HAVE ITS CHILDREN!!” 🙂
Umm…we’ll see…
But I agree with you on agents VS readers as far as the love goes. I read for enjoyment. I read for an escape and to live vicariously through the characters. An agent reads for her livelihood. She reads to put food on the table and put her children through college.
Agents have alot more riding on loving a book, then readers do.
I don’t envy them their jobs. It’s gotta be stressful, downright tough even.
I LOVED tis post, Jami.
Best wishes to you!!
Tamara
Hi Tamara,
Oh no! I’m sorry for freaking you out. 🙂
And you’re so right about how agents and editors must be picky because the books they commit to are their livelihood. As I mentioned to Liv above, I really tried to avoid the “agents suck because they’re so picky” vibe in this post. I can understand their position. They have their very legitimate reasons for their choosiness, and their professional reputation is on the line every time they decide to champion a book. That’s a stressful decision.
I’ll keep my fingers crossed for you and your agent search. 🙂 Thanks for the comment!
Very insightful post as usual, Jami.
I’ve been evaluating my needs for an agent along the same lines. I don’t feel like I need someone in my corner to get a book published anymore. I can do that myself. Now, I’m looking at an agent as a colleague rather than a God/Goddess who holds that mystical key to seeing my words in print. I want an agent who can help me with issues such as foreign rights and/or TV rights. I want an agent who can look at the contract and negotiate a great deal for me. I’d love to traditionally publish someday, but not because I feel that’s a validation of me as a writer. I simply view it as one more channel through which to reach readers and grow my reader base.
That whole “Oh my God, you’re an agent!” feeling of panic and star-struckness is fast becoming a thing of the past, thanks to readers gaining more power.
Hi Adriana,
Great way to put it! Yes, I’m looking for an agent and a publisher to be a partner, not someone who makes me starstruck. With the changing dynamics of the industry, no one person can break my chances of success. So it’s more about how we can help each other than one person begging for attention. 🙂 Thanks for the comment!
Now, I’m looking at an agent as a colleague rather than a God/Goddess who holds that mystical key to seeing my words in print.
*nod* I think this is why I was never into the whole Agent Search thing in the first place. I didn’t like the idea that agents were these angelic beings come to elevate mere mortals into Real Authors (and this notion had more to do with the way unpublished writers acted around them than anything the agents said or did).
Now, editors on the other hand… 😉
In all seriousness, though, I’m glad that writers have more options now, so that we can stop being too emotionally invested in the agent-author relationship.
Hi Rabia,
Good point! Most agents never acted superior–and in fact, asked authors not to treat them that way–but authors certainly looked up to them as though they were above everyone else. I think my attitude of treating them like people helped me during my pitch sessions too. I didn’t freak out like many others I saw. 🙂 Thanks for the comment!
Hmm. Let’s say the average literary agent sees 20 manuscripts a week on unicorn gargoyles for a solid 6 months (purely an arbitrary topic, folks). They are sick to death of unicorn gargoyles, now, and start twitching and gagging whenever they see a query with the word “unicorn” or “gargoyle” in it. They feel they have seen it all, sold as many as they market can bear, and now automatically reject them. But the reading public knows nothing of the gargoyle infestation going on in the agent’s office. They still want gargoyles, but the agents are sick of them, the editors are sick of them, and are only looking for something radically new, something they, personally, aren’t sick of and can be happily “in love” with. But the general reading public isn’t so enamored. I often wonder if the business of professional selling gets in the way of what the public truly would prefer to read. And from what I’m seeing, that’s where indie-publishing comes in.
Hi Sharon,
Ooo, great observation! Yes, the agents and editors are often throwing darts at a wall without knowing better than others what will stick. Many bestsellers come out of nowhere and weren’t predicted by anyone. Add to that how the whole reason they need to champion a book is because the acquisitions boards at publishers look at almost every factor except the book, and it’s easy to see that we’re all in this frustrating situation together.
And don’t worry–I don’t have a unicorn gargoyle project. 😉 Thanks for the comment!
This post really rang home for me. I had an agent request my full ms. She read it all the way through. Twice. And she shared it with others in her office. But in the end, she deemed it “too quiet” for this “tough market”.
Her putting in all that effort made me realize that she wanted to love my work almost as much as I wanted her to love my work.
Sometimes love just ain’t enough…
I had decided from the beginning I would try the traditional route first and then look into self-publishing. Some beta readers from my writers’ group loved my story. I’m realistic enough to know the unlikelihood of me making a living as a writer, I just want people to read and enjoy my books.
For some of us, love really is enough. 🙂
Hi Cindy,
Oh no! That’s truly heartbreaking. *hugs* I’m so sorry!
But I’d agree with your guess about how much she wanted to love your story enough to champion it. It was the market that made it impossible for her to be a champion, not the story. And if your goals align with just wanting to get your story out there, then self-publishing is might be the perfect choice for you. 🙂 Good luck and thanks for the comment!
I had a similar response from a publisher to my agent – I really liked it but feel that it’s too light a treatment for today’s market.
I’m sick of the heavy stuff that’s out there at the moment, and I doubt I’m the only one. There seems to be little choice. Thing is, I can afford to offer the choice and take the risk, but they can’t.
Hi Tahlia,
Yes! This isn’t a “they’re the bad guy” post for exactly that reason. I can understand why they have to be as picky as they are. They have huge companies with hundreds of employees counting on them to make smart business decisions for them. We just have to choose what’s best for little ol’ us and our family. 🙂 Thanks for the comment!
This is so true, unfortunately. But then I think about how many times an agent may have to read the ms before she decides it’s ready for submission, I’m not surprised agents have to absolutely love it (and know there’s a market for the book). There are a lot of books I really really enjoyed, but not enough to read again. And many of them I knew I wouldn’t love when I bought them, but that didn’t stop me from buying them. That’s why self publishing makes sense, for the right people.
Hi Stina,
No doubt! We think about how sick we get of our stories when we’re working on them and agents and editors deal with the same problem. 🙂 Thanks for the comment!
Ooooo gosh…this reminds me of the spill I’ve been giving since my trip last month. Whenever someone’s asked me something like, “So when’s your book being published?” or “What’s the next step?”, my response is always, “Well, I’ve gotta get an agent first. My writing’s there. I know it’s there. But unfortunately, it’s gotta be a one-two-punch combo of both writing and story. If I don’t break-in with this story, then maybe it’ll be the next one. Or the one after that.” <– This is exactly what this post is about. Agents may love the story, but if it's not undying-everyone-must-buy-this-book love, then there's going to be a rejection letter flying my way. And I understand. I don't necessarily like it – along with every other author looking to break into the market – but I understand it. I have to agree with what Tami said though – if self-publishing's hurting publishers (and in turn, agents), then why aren't the standards being lowered juuuuust a little? Maybe we'll never know….but until then, I'll start and keep querying, and if it's not this story, then I'll query the next ones after that until I nail it. I also agree there's a difference between loving a book, and loving a book so much that you grabbed a friend and shove it in their face. I did that with "The Fault in Our Stars" — as soon as I finished it, I bought 2 additional copies online (signed copies too 🙂 ). One… — Read More »
Hi Melinda,
Yes, I can see that reaction from others. They want instant results, right? 🙂
LOL! at your shoving a book in faces. That’s a great reaction. Writers need more readers willing to do that. 🙂 Thanks for the comment!
Agreed! Writers really could use more readers willing to do that. I know J.R. Ward made a killing off me at Christmas two years ago. I bought the entire BDB series and gave them to my sister, my mother, and another good friend of mine. Books are the gifts that keep giving long after the last page has been read (My mom made $20 off her set in a yard sale – can you believe that?! I told her to donate it to the library next time. but still, that’s a killin’ for a set of books in a yard sale.). 😉
Hi Melinda,
LOL! Yes, last Christmas I gave Janice Hardy’s entire series to every middle-grader I knew. 🙂
Totally true. I managed to get an agent, which was in itself pretty awesome, but she didn’t find me a publisher despite the kind of rejections you cited above. She told me that 5 years ago my YA fantasy would have been snapped up. I have a couple of other books out via my own Indie company and I’ve just told my agent that I’m planning to do the same with the book she represented. I see no point waiting any longer, especially since I’d be doing exactly the same publicity as I’m doing now regardless of who publishes my books. I don’t sell a lot of books yet, but I’m only just starting out. However, I have fabulous reviews from readers and from other authors (whose input I value greatly) and I have a growing number of people who absolutely love what I write. By going Indie, I can find my readers; if I stick with the traditional system, it appears that I won’t find any. Making it so difficult for good writers to have their books published does send more to the alternative routes, & sites like the Awesome Indies that list only quality Indies make it easy for readers to find the good ones. This growing profile of Indie books as good removes a major reason that authors don’t go that route. Mind you, setting up your own Indie publishing company is not for the faint hearted , and even if you just use the self publishing… — Read More »
Hi Tahlia,
Yes, for writers who treat themselves as a business and take the craft seriously, self-publishing is no “shortcut.” 🙂 Thanks for sharing your experience and for the comment!
Jami, even though the topic should make me freak out like it did Tamara, I felt comforted by reading your post…you have that effect on me! 🙂 While, like you, I’m still all for going the traditional route, I do keep in mind always that getting published or discovered is a complete crap shoot with huge odds against me. I’m okay with that since I know that there are far more hopeful writers than there are publishers/agents and I also know that they have lots of money invested in each project so they’re not going to just go with the “I love it” versus the “I can’t live without it” books. What does discourage me is that I have seen books out there (as everyone has) that make me go “what the heck were they thinking when they bought this book and published it???” I know that’s all subject too because, and I have one book in mind in particular, that while I may think a book is awful (this book used all the Tom Swifty-isms and said-isms that every single book and class I’ve ever read/taken tells us not to do), other people I know who aren’t even the editor/agent of the book tell me how much they like it. So, I guess my long rambling comment here is just to say that I think the publishing world is as random as the rest of the universe and I have to not take it personally (as you so wisely… — Read More »
Hi Teresa,
Yes, we can’t take it personally. 🙂 I know the worst book I’ve ever DNF’ed (did not finish) was written by a bestselling author. I think laziness on followup books was a huge factor. And the editor isn’t going to tell them no if readers are still buying. *shrug* Thanks for the comment!
I’m dealing with this right now. I have (beta) readers who love my current WIP, but I know that this particular subgenre isn’t selling right now. What to do? Publishing is changing, but it’s scary to give up the traditional route and the perhaps evolving clout it conveys…
Hi Bluestocking,
I hear you. Agents say paranormal lists are too full and that publishers aren’t buying. But readers still are. They’ve said the same thing about historical romances too, and yet they’re still selling to readers. It’s really tough (i.e., downright impossible) to know the best way to go sometimes. 🙂 Thanks for the comment!
So glad I hit send on my first round of submissions to agents literally one minute right before I read this post.
I’m not too horrible concerned about being rejected because if I do, then I can eventually my work and self-publish. Granted, I would hire an editor since I want my final draft to be “publishing-house-shinny.”
Yet if I get rejected I will take any notes they offer and not worry about it too much because it’s only one person’s review of my work and it isn’t the best fit with them.
Hi Melissa,
LOL! Good for you. 🙂
Exactly! I was trying to get across in the post that on some level it’s a numbers game with numbers of readers and the potential that could really love our work vs. numbers of agents and the potential that could really love our work (hence the horrible math problem 🙂 ), but this sums up that idea beautifully. Yes, an agent’s rejection really is just one person and their opinion. Period. 🙂 Thanks for the comment!
I think this is why it’s such a good time for writers right now. There are choices. As you know, I went the traditional route with the agent and publisher and am still doing that. (So it can be done! 🙂 I queried like anyone else and it happened for me.) And I’m happy with my decision. My publisher has been a great partner and unlike some others’ experiences, my publisher has continued to offer me a better package with each book deal as I get more and more established. I haven’t had to fight tooth and nail for that, they want to offer me value to stay with them. Yes, we absolutely can self-pub and find readers on our own. And I think there are some types of books that self-pubbing is actually the wiser way to go because the story might not fit into the “agent/publisher wants to have its babies AND they think they can sell it” category. That doesn’t mean there aren’t a segment of readers for it. The publisher just may not have a clear idea of how they would market such a book on a broad scale. However, the drawback is all the additional work that goes along with doing it all on your own. I like that I get to focus most on writing my books. My agent handles things like selling film rights and foreign rights without me having to worry about it. She fights for something if I need a tough… — Read More »
Hi Roni,
Great point! Yes, we have choices now–which is awesome. And that means we have to choose–which is hard. 🙂
It’s great to hear from someone where the traditional way is working as we’d like to believe it always does. Your story shows us that it can be done. 🙂 Thanks for sharing and for the comment!
Wonderful article Jami. I wanted to comment on a few things. I think this might sound horrible for me to say but I think those Big Publishers are tanking. They are so picky along with the editors. Smaller presses give us high royalties and self publishing. One reason people self publish is the patience. They don’t want to wait 2-3 years to see their book in the bookstores, they want their work out there now. If you think of the model. It can take you 6 months to 1 year or longer to find an agent. Then if the agent is editorial the two of you will do some edits. Then depending on how good the agent is, I’ve heard of them selling manuscripts within a week, or even months for the agent to sell the book. Then edits, cover, and marketing and then it’s about 2 years until it hits the store. Why spend 2 years when with kindle direct your book is out there now. I submitted to one agent I really wanted to work with. Form rejection. When I studied the agent closer, turns out that agent everything she’s represented was a franchise, books turned into films. I should have known not to waste time emailing her. Now because of the genres I write and the market, even though there are people who are thirsty for the paranormal romance, it’s the publishers. New York publishing is like New York fashion, what’s in one year is out the… — Read More »
Hi Vanessa,
Good point about the time issue. And that’s why I say that everyone has to follow their own path to their own goals. Some want to start making money now, so the delay is a major con of traditional publishing. Some would rather have the validation of traditional publishing and they’re okay with being patient. 🙂
The problem is the feeling like it’s never going to happen. We can tolerate a bad situation if we know it’s going to end. 🙂 But when we don’t know? That’s much harder to endure. Thanks for the comment!
Then with the small presses that can get your book into the stores, it takes them about a year so they can properly market it. Now with small presses accepting agent submissions, publishing is changing, it makes you wonder how long those big publishers will last. If you look at the Entangled Publishing Indulgence line, almost 20 of their books are in the NYT bestseller and have been accquired for printing rights. I still dream of working with an agent. Most in particular the agents who get those books into small presses who pay the authors small presses. If an author does not have an agent it’s advised for them to have the contract looked over by an IP lawyer.
Another reason people are tedious for traditional is the deadlines they want to put the authors on. With small presses and self publishing, you put your next book out there when you’re ready. Me, I write like a machine, I can get 3 books done in a year, its the editing that takes me forever.
Thank you Renee for agreeing with me.
Thank you for letting me comment on your blog Jami!
Hi Vanessa,
Yes, I think some small presses will be successful enough to become one of the future bigger presses. 🙂 So it’s good to consider all our options when deciding which way is right for us.
And you’re absolutely right–if we don’t have an agent (and sometimes, even if we do!), it’s a good idea to have an IP lawyer check our contracts. Thanks for the comment!
Hi Jami,
I hate to say this but FS is proof, publishers don’t care if the writing is good, they all just want one thing MONEY. Money makes the world go around
Thanks for letting me comment!
Hi Vanessa,
True. But while I certainly wish publishers’ standards required quality writing, a part of me understands that they are a business and have to take on projects that will help them survive. *shrug* I’m idealistic yet practical. 🙂 Thanks for the comment!
I think Vanessa up there ^^ is spot on.
That said, I still would like to try to find an agent.
You know, once I get a computer again and I rewrite my book and all.
You are still in the queue as a beta reader.
It would nice to feel like an agent wants me. Like when (was it?) Susan Sarandon screamed, “You like me! You really like me!” after she’d won an award in the film industry. Scoring an agent would feel like that. Maybe.
What do I know? I’m back to square one. *headdesk*
Great post!
Hi Renee,
Oh. 🙁 I know. I keep thinking about pestering you for your book, and then I remember…
I’ll still be here when it’s ready. *hugs* Thanks for the comment!
I agree that it’s very difficult to find an agent, especially when one is writing something as subjective as humor. What one person finds funny another person finds funereal, and often one’s comedic vision simply isn’t shared by a lot of other people.
I’ve made attempts to get an agent that have proven fruitless but I do plan to continue trying. Self-publishing seems a very difficult route for an unknown humor writer; it’s tough enough to get people to read your stuff for free in your blog, let alone get them to pay you for it when there are so many other sources of humor around.
I relate to all the points brought out in this piece. Thanks for writing it, Jami!
Hi Perry,
Ooo, yes, good point about humor! Comedy can be more subjective than other subject matters. And it’s so related to your voice that you can’t change the humor tone very easily. Good luck and thanks for the comment!
At my RWA chapter meeting last week, four members announced that they’d signed with agents. The really interesting part is that every one got an agent AFTER they made a sale, not before. Either they got an agent on the strength of a first sale, or they got one due to having had one or more successful e-books. It seems that agents are becoming even more risk-averse than they have been, and what causes them to take on new clients now isn’t loving the book, but rather a sales record. Interesting. Of course my theory is based on a pretty small sample size 😉
But it does cause me to question my strategy of submitting to agents and having them submit to editors. Maybe this is no longer a viable strategy, given the current market? I don’t know, but I do know I’m going to be much more assertive about submitting to editors now.
Hi Janet,
Wow! That’s fascinating! Yes, it’s a small sample size, but it makes sense given what we’re seeing in the industry. Agents are getting squeezed too, and they need to make a living just like anyone else. Like you, I’ve submitted to agents first, thinking that was the “right” way to do it, but maybe the backwards way is easier. 🙂 Thanks so much for sharing and for the comment!
[…] The High Bar of Finding an Agent or Publisher by Jami Gold. […]
Jami, my blog posts on average a similar length to this one, so don’t be too hard on yourself, I’m sure my post today (Sept 22nd as I started write this) was even longer, and not as well thought out, but like your post above, I said what I did from a honest place. I get your intentions with this post, and I don’t think you were being disrespectful of agents or editors, at all. Just being honest about what you and those who replied before me have experienced and seen play out. But it was hard to read in parts without wanting to scream and down a dozen pizzas (If I had them). Not what you said, just how I wish parts of it weren’t true, for the sake of my morale I and (I hope) others desperately need. I really feel it’s the “Not knowing what’s enough” that causes much of the heartbreak. Not just for getting published, but improving one’s craft as a writer, and that supposed to be in our “control.” Well, for me lately, my level of writing feels anything but “Controlled. After my last project didn’t even get the (fabled in my experience so far) non-form rejections, I’ve tried to shift gears from my niche genre, to writing something less stigmatized that I still love writing, and so far that alone is just as hard as trying to publish my last book was. I’m not often neutral in my opinions or emotions, I try… — Read More »
Hi Taurean,
I know what you mean. Our grasp of writing craft is one of the few things under our control, and yet the uncertainty of knowing what it will take to be “good enough” makes us feel like we’re not in control of that aspect either.
And I’ll tell you that it’s not any easier to write paranormal/dystopian/etc., as many agents’ lists are already full of certain genres and they’re not looking for any more. I don’t think there are any easy answers here. I agree that many of those feeling pushed to self-publishing now aren’t being impatient. Rather they’re deciding that reaching readers is more important than whatever they could get from agents or publishers.
I’m fairly certain I’ll self-publish some of my stories because I don’t see them fitting into agents/editors concepts of genre, but I’m not in a hurry to do so while I’m working on some of my more commercial work. For some of us (and/or for some of our stories), our work isn’t a good match for traditional publishing, and I think wishing for traditional publishing to change in that regard is asking for knock-our-head-against-the-wall frustration. We have options now, and I’d rather take advantage of those options that engage in that head-banging exercise. 🙂
I hope you’ll get the opportunity to save up for that editing and self-publishing help so you don’t feel as stuck. Is there anything you can offer in exchange to barter for some of it? *hugs* Good luck and thanks for the comment!
Thanks for replying back, Jami, I wish I didn’t feel so emotionally distressed. It’s cost me much of the support I used to have, or have put in danger because I feel things in a way few people get, or at least handle better than I do. I didn’t say writing or selling paranormal and the like would be “easy.” But despite of my personally being tired of them, it seems to be minority opinion given the taste of readers now. Since what I’ve written before now isn’t exactly easy to place or market either (Unless I go the preschool route, and I’m just not able to be simple enough, or willing to drastically rework it to make it so) my only choice is to find a new type of story and in a sense, restart my journey back to zero. Dramatic as that sounds, it’s the only thing I can think to do because giving up isn’t an option. At the moment, though, I’m on hiatus from regularly updating my blog, and most writing in general, as much as I didn’t want to take a break, it’s better than making a fool of myself with how emotionally I take things. I don’t equate “Less of a stigma” to “This YA-Paranormal whatever will sell for sure.” I really didn’t mean it that way. Sorry if I gave that impression when I replied before. It was late, and I had to speak to this. As true as your points are, it… — Read More »
Hi Tauren, No worries! I knew you didn’t mean that it would be easy for others. 🙂 As I said, there are no easy answers here. I wish I did have an easy answer for you. But as you mentioned, even though you know some readers must want the non-dark type stories, it’s hard to find agents or publishers interested in them. Have you looked into small publishers? I’m not that familiar with them because there are so many, but some of them seem to allow for more diversity than the bigger publishers. Otherwise, yes, self-publishing might be the best answer for you. And while it might be frustrating to not be able to afford the editing now, if you went with an agent/traditional publisher, your book likely wouldn’t be on the shelves for 2-3 years. If you’d be willing to wait that long for traditional publishing, consider that over that same time, you might be able to save the money for proper self-publishing editing services. In other words, I hope that where there’s a will there’s a way, even if it might require more waiting while you save up the money. As for bartering, only you would know whether you have other skills to offer. To see if it’s a possibility, you ask. 🙂 If someone was good at design work, they might offer to spiffy up an editor’s website in exchange for editing, etc. I don’t know if there are specific sites dedicated to barter exchanges, as I… — Read More »
Thanks again, Jami. I just wanted to be clear that my concerns about self-publishing wasn’t coming from a place of knee-jerk ignorance. It’s truly more of not finding a realistic way to do it with limited funds and not knowing where to turn or who to ask for advice. I don’t have much money to my name, and while $1000 USD isn’t much to some, it is in my world right now, and even if I could set aside money between now and this time next year, finding the right freelance editor seems even more daunting a task than finding an agent. That’s another issue I have with self-publishing. As much as I get why various writers I know say, “To succeed as an indie author, you need ‘books,’ not just one book”, that’s easier said than done when just ONE book costs thousands for the edits alone, never mind decent covers for each one, along with marketing and the like. Even though the cost is still less than print books, and I’ve done the research to know that for my last book that’s the case, it’s still not financially feasible, I’m not trying to be dismissive. Jami. I. Hear. You. Yes, I do know the traditional route takes time, but I didn’t write my last book overnight either, it’s just I had to realize that I don’t yet have the skills as well funds to go that route. Yes, it’s great we have choices, but if you can’t afford… — Read More »
Hi Taurean,
I know what you mean. I haven’t gone through this process yet either, so I don’t have any advice for you other than asking for recommendations and starting with editors who give you a free sample edit. (Many editors will do a few pages for free so you can ensure their feedback is the type you’re looking for.)
As far as releasing multiple books, we hope the proceeds from sales of the first book will help pay for the prep work of the second, but it doesn’t always work out that way. However, we can’t know until we try, so that’s one of those problems we have to set aside until we know if we need to worry about it or not. We have enough things to worry about without adding questions that might not turn out to be problems. 🙂
I’m not being dismissive of you or your situation, but because there aren’t any magic answers for this, there’s a limit to how much I can help. *hugs* Thanks for the comment!
[…] The High Bar Of Finding And Agent Or Publisher by Jami Gold. So sad, but so true. Sniff. […]
Sorry, but I’m just telling you the truth, and what sounds like “I want a magic cure” to you is just my reality. So, if you’ve no advice, just back off!
Hi Taurean,
I understand you’re frustrated. I gave you my advice on how to bypass agents, how to afford an editor, and how to find a good editor. I understand that your reality makes it difficult to apply that advice, and I never meant to imply that I thought you, personally, expected a “magic” answer. (Heck, I’d take one of those any day too. 🙂 ) However, asking for advice on how to change a situation beyond all our control is wishing for something that doesn’t exist.
Maybe you came to my blog to vent–and I wouldn’t blame you for that–but you also asked questions, looking like you wanted advice. I did the best I could, but I can’t provide an answer that doesn’t exist. Again, I’m not being dismissive, so I wish you luck in finding an answer to your situation!
You’re right, Jami, we can only do what we can do, it’s just discouraging when it’s still not enough, though. I apologize for being harsh with you. Thanks for trying to impart what advice you could. I just wish I could execute it more than you’ll ever know. I did look into small publishers, as I said above, but they either don’t publish fiction at all, or only want YA fiction (Which I don’t write well), or only publish nonfiction (Which I just can’t write at all, and as much as no one close to me wants to hear the word ‘can’t’, saying otherwise is lying-at least on this specific issue). Part of why I was mad before was because I felt like you were getting the impression that I was basing much of what I said on irrational fear and reluctance. It’s why what you said here got to me- “However, we can’t know until we try, so that’s one of those problems we have to set aside until we know if we need to worry about it or not. We have enough things to worry about without adding questions that might not turn out to be problems. ” The thing is, I did try, but aside from the fact my first attempt at a Kindle ebook was just a poorly formatted mess, a writer friend I “focus grouped” the book with brought errors to my attention that I had not found beforehand, things I thought I’d fixed still… — Read More »
Hi Taurean,
No worries. I understand your frustration. *hugs*
And yes, I know you’ve done a huge amount of work into investigating your options. Sometimes when I reply to comments, I generalize a bit so others can take nuggets of information from the conversation to apply to their own situation. I’m sorry if that generalizing came off as implying that you hadn’t done enough. I certainly didn’t intend that! 🙂
To answer your question, I wouldn’t self-publish if I didn’t feel the quality could live up to traditionally published books. But that’s my personal choice based on my conscious decision to treat my writing as a business and professionally. Others might draw that line somewhere else, but as you said, then we risk turning off a potential reader before making the sale. After I look at Amazon pages of books, I click the close button (even when free) more often than I click the buy button, and the issue of quality is a big reason behind that.
I loved what you said in your blog post about believing in your writing. I’m not successfully agented or published yet either, but I press on for that same reason. Good luck and thanks for the comment!
[…] The High Bar of Finding an Agent or Publisher […]
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